Cold and Missing: Holly White

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,780The views and opinions expressed in Cold and Missing are exclusively those of the hosts.200:00:13,780 --> 00:00:18,400All parties mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.300:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,160Cold and Missing also contains adult themes and languages.400:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,560Listener discretion is advised.500:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,280I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.600:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,680And I'm your co-host, Eli Sulkowski.700:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,600And this is Cold and Missing, where we cover cold cases and missing person cases.800:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,320Hello everyone and welcome back to Cold and Missing.900:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,160I'm your host, Ali McLaughlin-Sulkowski.1000:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,800And it will just be me this week.1100:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,760I wanted to just give a little note here at the top.1200:00:45,760 --> 00:00:51,100So this week's episode and next week's episode are going to be related to each other.1300:00:51,100 --> 00:00:54,180They take place in the same area.1400:00:54,180 --> 00:00:59,200So I just wanted to throw that out there that it's not quite a two-parter, but there is1500:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,040a connected episode that we will be airing next week.1600:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,360So next week won't be a cold case.1700:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,680It'll still be another missing person case.1800:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,480But I really wanted to bring these cases together.1900:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,120So let's just get into it.2000:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,200I just wanted to give a bit of a content warning at the top that there are mentions of suicide2100:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,440in today's podcast.2200:01:20,440 --> 00:01:25,400If you or someone you love is struggling with thoughts of suicide, you can dial 988 if you're2300:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,060in the United States.2400:01:27,060 --> 00:01:32,440Or you can visit 988lifeline.org to speak with somebody.2500:01:32,440 --> 00:01:37,120Today we're going to be talking about the missing person case of Holly White.2600:01:37,120 --> 00:01:43,360This takes place in May of 2016 in Taos, New Mexico.2700:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,120But first, a little bit about Holly.2800:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,960Holly is 49 years old in 2016.2900:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,840Those close to Holly say that she was meticulously organized.3000:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,840She paid attention to the details.3100:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,200But above all, she was an extremely warm person.3200:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,160You gravitated towards her and you couldn't help but feel comfortable with her.3300:02:03,160 --> 00:02:04,980She was always welcoming.3400:02:04,980 --> 00:02:08,080She had a dog named Rosie, who she loved.3500:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,080Holly was well known in the Taos community.3600:02:11,080 --> 00:02:16,080For over 20 years, she worked as the general manager for the Taos Center for the Arts.3700:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,320But she had recently put in her two weeks notice.3800:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,560Holly's husband, Jeff White, had moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is about two3900:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,840and a half hours away, to pursue a new job.4000:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,920He had rented a house there and had been fixing it up, and now Holly was due to join him.4100:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,200Holly was excited to move and to start this new chapter of her life.4200:02:36,200 --> 00:02:42,540She already had an interview set up to be an office manager for a dentist there in Albuquerque.4300:02:42,540 --> 00:02:47,760But mostly she was excited to be with her husband again and to live as a couple again.4400:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,480And now a timeline of events.4500:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,240Thursday, May 5, 2016.4600:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,200Holly works one of her final days at the Taos Center for the Arts.4700:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,160Her official last day would be next Friday, May 13.4800:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,640Holly spent the day training her replacement as the general manager in the office.4900:03:06,640 --> 00:03:12,240That evening, Holly texted with a friend around 9.20 p.m. and also texted with her best friend5000:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,120Cynthia to meet up the next morning for their daily morning walk.5100:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,680Holly stays up playing words with friends and chatting using the in-game communication5200:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,080until about 10.30 p.m.5300:03:23,080 --> 00:03:29,240The next day, Friday, May 6, 2016, Holly had made plans to meet with her friend Cynthia5400:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,620to go on their morning walk together in the Kit Carson Park area.5500:03:33,620 --> 00:03:38,940This is something they had done together almost daily for nearly eight years.5600:03:38,940 --> 00:03:42,960They had a plan to take their morning walk and then meet up again later that day for5700:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,920Holly's going away party due to her upcoming move to Albuquerque.5800:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,200When Holly didn't show up to their meeting spot and after not answering phone calls or5900:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,560text messages, Cynthia decides to head over to her bus front's house.6000:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,120When Cynthia arrived at the house, she noticed that Holly's car was gone, but no one was6100:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,920answering the front door and phone calls continued to go unanswered.6200:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,160So Cynthia let herself in using the spare key that she had been given.6300:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,720When Cynthia entered the home, Holly's dog Rosie greeted her at the door.6400:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,000Cynthia noticed that Holly's purse was near the front door.6500:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,520Holly took her purse everywhere with her.6600:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,120Even when they would meet up for their early morning walks, Holly would have her purse.6700:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,960Cynthia also found Holly's phone still charging next to the bed.6800:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,060The phone had a missed alarm on it.6900:04:29,060 --> 00:04:33,440As if Holly had planned to get up for the morning walk, Cynthia makes her way over to7000:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,260the next door neighbor, who was also the realtor that was helping Holly and Jeff sell their7100:04:38,260 --> 00:04:42,700towels home since they were making the official move to Albuquerque.7200:04:42,700 --> 00:04:46,160Cynthia asked the neighbor if they have any idea where Holly might be.7300:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,640They did not.7400:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,520Neither Cynthia or the next door neighbor had a phone number for Jeff, so they each7500:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,440called around to some folks who worked at the Taos Art Center to get his number and7600:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,440call him.7700:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,440When Holly's husband is reached in Albuquerque, he has no idea where Holly is at either and7800:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,680asks that Cynthia call the police.7900:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,480He immediately leaves and makes the two and a half hour drive to Taos to help look for8000:05:07,480 --> 00:05:08,480his wife.8100:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,600He had already planned to come back to Taos that day to join Holly at her going away party.8200:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,920As Cynthia is waiting in the driveway for police to come, a member of the Taos Art Center8300:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,760calls Cynthia to let her know that Holly's car had been found.8400:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,800It was parked at the Rio Grande Gorge Bridge.8500:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,320The keys were still in the vehicle, inside the cup holder.8600:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,620Cynthia immediately heads there and talks with a roadside vendor that said the car was8700:05:32,620 --> 00:05:36,380already there when she arrived at 6.15 a.m.8800:05:36,380 --> 00:05:40,560On the police side of things, the case is immediately handed off to the state police8900:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,240and they launch a search of the gorge.9000:05:43,240 --> 00:05:48,640Police also make note that there is some dried grass on the floor in front of the passenger9100:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,760seat of Holly's vehicle.9200:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,080Holly was known to keep her vehicle very tidy, so the presence of the grass was odd to those9300:05:55,080 --> 00:05:56,960that knew her.9400:05:56,960 --> 00:06:02,000So just a little bit of background around the gorge bridge.9500:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,120This is a beautiful space.9600:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,520If you just type this place into Google Maps and just take in the street view, it's really9700:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,040a breathtaking sight.9800:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,760It's a gorgeous area.9900:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,000Over the years, people have used this bridge to die by suicide.10000:06:18,000 --> 00:06:23,800So as soon as Holly's car is found here, police begin to believe that this is what happened.10100:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,400But her family and friends are adamant that she would not do that and that if she did,10200:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,240she would have left a note.10300:06:30,240 --> 00:06:36,520Even more, Cynthia tells police that May 6th, this is that day that Holly goes missing,10400:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,360is Cynthia's birthday.10500:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,280There is no way that her bus run would ruin the day like that.10600:06:42,280 --> 00:06:46,760That evening, instead of having the goodbye party Holly's friends, family, and co-workers10700:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,800organize a search party and pass out flyers for Holly, they search the area around the10800:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,360bridge and neither Holly's friends or the state police are able to find any evidence10900:06:56,360 --> 00:06:57,680of her.11000:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,800That weekend, Saturday, May 7th and Sunday, May 8th, police spend the weekend searching11100:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,200along the Gorge Bridge area for Holly.11200:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,960They bring out the ground search and rescue team, cadaver dogs, and a helicopter to assist11300:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,280in their search.11400:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,280Police also bring in a scent dog who's only able to track the scent of Holly near her11500:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,080vehicle nowhere else on the bridge or in the parking lot.11600:07:19,080 --> 00:07:24,480After the weekend search, no sign of Holly is found and police suspended the search indefinitely.11700:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,000Police say that typically when someone jumps from the bridge, that they are usually found11800:07:29,000 --> 00:07:35,080by area rafters and usually later in the summer when the water levels have gone down.11900:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,360Holly's friends and family spend the weekend putting flyers around Tows to bring awareness12000:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,320about Holly's missing person status.12100:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,680On Wednesday, May 11th, Holly has been missing for five days now.12200:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,800Police hold a press conference and tell the public that at this time there is no evidence12300:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,360of foul play.12400:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,080A state police spokesperson says, quote, it is possible that she jumped and just didn't12500:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,440tell anyone how she was feeling, end quote.12600:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,560But those closest to Holly do not believe that she was thinking of taking her own life.12700:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,560Cynthia points out that she would have never left her dog alone and without a plan to be12800:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,040cared for and she had not mentioned any thoughts of hurting herself.12900:08:14,040 --> 00:08:19,680A group of kayakers who had already had a trip planned for this day also aid in their13000:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,120efforts to help find Holly.13100:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,560One of the rafters' mothers was friends with Holly and she asked him to keep an eye13200:08:26,560 --> 00:08:27,560out.13300:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,400The rafters tell police that they had found a woman's shoe floating among debris in13400:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,300the river, a black mesh sketcher's shoe.13500:08:35,300 --> 00:08:39,380Police say that the size of the shoe was a match for Holly, but her family and friends13600:08:39,380 --> 00:08:42,040are unsure if the shoe was hers.13700:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,160She owned another set of the sketcher's shoes, but they were in a different color.13800:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,200Her family and friends believe that the shoe could be hers, but her husband thinks that13900:08:51,200 --> 00:08:57,120if it is her, then whoever took her had parked the car at the gorge as a decoy and then threw14000:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,540the shoe over to throw police off.14100:09:00,540 --> 00:09:06,080The next day, Thursday, May 12th, police conduct another search of the Rio Grande, covering14200:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,10016 miles and with a dive team.14300:09:09,100 --> 00:09:12,720No trace of Holly is found during this search.14400:09:12,720 --> 00:09:17,560On Wednesday, May 18th, Holly has been missing for 12 days.14500:09:17,560 --> 00:09:20,920Her husband, Jeff, sits down with local media.14600:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,600She tells them that he had last talked on the phone with her Thursday night, the night14700:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,560before she went missing.14800:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,160He says, quote, We were making plans to go to the party.14900:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,240We were just laughing and joking, just like always.15000:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,420My take on this, really, is she got taken.15100:09:39,420 --> 00:09:45,520Somebody came to the door probably early Friday morning, woke her up, she knew him, and she15200:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,720kind of answered the door.15300:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,280I don't know any other scenario because she isn't the type of person to leave without15400:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,280a note.15500:09:53,280 --> 00:09:58,080Everything was here, her belongings, her cell phone, her charge cards, her license.15600:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,080End quote.15700:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,240Jeff confirms to the local paper that he was a suspect at first, but remains firm that15800:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,240he was in their new house in Albuquerque when Holly went missing.15900:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,760Jeff was renting the new home from his new boss, who lived next door, and confirms that16000:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,000Jeff was at work the next morning.16100:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,440The whole experience has been upending for Jeff.16200:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,720He says, quote, I couldn't even think on Friday.16300:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,920I didn't even really eat until Sunday when a buddy came over.16400:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,520I was just shocked.16500:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,800Now I'm confused.16600:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,840I don't know what really went on.16700:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,040I know damn well she didn't jump.16800:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,200She didn't leave me.16900:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,160There would have been a note.17000:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,020She's not a cold person.17100:10:37,020 --> 00:10:38,680She wouldn't leave her dog.17200:10:38,680 --> 00:10:41,000I don't know why she would just leave on her own.17300:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,500She just wouldn't.17400:10:42,500 --> 00:10:43,620End quote.17500:10:43,620 --> 00:10:47,720Her family and friends remain steadfast in their belief that she wouldn't jump off of17600:10:47,720 --> 00:10:48,800the bridge.17700:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,240And if she would, she would have left a note.17800:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,840They all believe, along with Jeff, that someone took Holly against her will Thursday night17900:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,760or Friday morning and parked the car at the gorge as a decoy.18000:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,080However, police say at this time that most likely she jumped off the bridge and they18100:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,640do not suspect foul play.18200:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,840Jeff is also critical of the police.18300:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,280He says, quote, they are just so slow.18400:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,760We are just moving at a snail's pace.18500:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,160He also tells the local media that he had to consider every scenario since the police18600:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,240won't, such as if Holly had been having an affair.18700:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,360Jeff doesn't think she was, but wanted police to test the bedsheets to make sure there was18800:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,200no unknown DNA.18900:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,520Jeff said, quote, a neighbor came and said how sorry he was.19000:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,920And he told me there was a black Toyota Solera with Colorado plates.19100:11:35,920 --> 00:11:36,920End quote.19200:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,880The car was seen at Holly and Jeff's home the day before she vanished.19300:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,960Jeff also learned that on the day that Holly disappeared, there were two men seen leaving19400:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,960the gorge that police have yet to talk to.19500:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,440Jeff says, quote, if she is down in the gorge, she didn't go by herself.19600:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,040She was pushed or something.19700:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,720End quote.19800:11:55,720 --> 00:12:01,080In July of 2016, so it's been two months since Holly went missing, and there is still19900:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,200no sign of what happened to her.20000:12:03,200 --> 00:12:08,480Around the community of Taos, however, tragic death by suicide continues to happen both20100:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,520on and off the bridge.20200:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,280The community implores that more be done at the bridge to stop people from jumping, and20300:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,320mental health professionals in Taos urge those in powers to put more money towards mental20400:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,360health before someone even has to think of driving to the bridge.20500:12:24,360 --> 00:12:30,120As of 2024, they have installed crisis hotline phones, but no other preventative measures20600:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,760such as netting have been put in place.20700:12:32,760 --> 00:12:40,400In August of 2016, police send Holly's computer and cell phone off to be forensically analyzed.20800:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,020Police are pretty tight lipped about what was found on her devices, but do say, quote,20900:12:45,020 --> 00:12:47,600she had many friends she spoke with online.21000:12:47,600 --> 00:12:48,600End quote.21100:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,740Police also confirm that it was both in-state and out-of-state people that Holly had been21200:12:52,740 --> 00:12:54,280talking with.21300:12:54,280 --> 00:12:59,200Police also tell the media that they had checked and confirmed that she did not fly out on21400:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,080any international flights the day she went missing and are following up with domestic21500:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,880flights for any potential clues.21600:13:06,880 --> 00:13:12,840It's unclear exactly why, but on August 26th of 2016, so it's been over three months21700:13:12,840 --> 00:13:18,440since Holly disappeared, Holly's case is moved from the Uniform Bureau to the State's21800:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,880Police Criminal Investigation Bureau.21900:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,400But police remain firm that she is still considered missing at this time and no foul play has22000:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,680been uncovered in her case.22100:13:27,680 --> 00:13:33,700On September 5th, 2016, a private investigator, Elaine Graves, is hired by Holly's father22200:13:33,700 --> 00:13:35,500to help solve the case.22300:13:35,500 --> 00:13:41,680She hires two kayakers to search the Rio Grande in an area known as the Taos Box.22400:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,320Nothing is found during the search.22500:13:44,320 --> 00:13:50,000On September 8th, it's now been four months since Holly vanished, State Police Lieutenant22600:13:50,000 --> 00:13:55,600Edwards Martinez tells local media that police have ruled out the possibility that she jumped22700:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,020from the bridge.22800:13:57,020 --> 00:14:01,320They also have ruled out that she simply got up and walked away from her life.22900:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,800Lieutenant Martinez says, quote, We met with the criminal investigations lieutenant and23000:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,800sergeant and we went over the whole case and discussed it.23100:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,680Suicide seemed unlikely for a couple of reasons.23200:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,820We found in her computer that she had plans for her future.23300:14:15,820 --> 00:14:19,680She was looking for a job in Albuquerque and she was trying to sell her house and planning23400:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,480to move out of Taos.23500:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,180Also she didn't take any identification.23600:14:24,180 --> 00:14:29,120She didn't take any money, her bank accounts have no activity on them, or her credit cards.23700:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,880We ran her social security card through the system to see if the numbers were used to23800:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,000find employment elsewhere and none of that panned out.23900:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,400End quote.24000:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,560Police are confident to rule out death by suicide since other people have jumped from24100:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,640the bridge since Holly went missing and all of their bodies have been able to be recovered24200:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,040from the river.24300:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,100In fact, police are confident that Holly did not jump.24400:14:52,100 --> 00:14:57,420In January of 2017, Holly has been missing for eight months and there are simply no leads24500:14:57,420 --> 00:14:59,680in her case.24600:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,160Jeff is asked by the private investigator to take a polygraph test.24700:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,440He passes the test and hopes that police and the private investigator will at least believe24800:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,680him now when he says that he wasn't involved and move on to other theories.24900:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,720Also in Jeff's defense, he did ask to be polygraphed to be cleared.25000:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,280He wanted to be officially ruled out so everyone could focus on other things in the case.25100:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,240Jeff maintains that he believes that Holly answered the door to someone she thought she25200:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,320knew or since she was such a kind person to help someone in need.25300:15:33,320 --> 00:15:40,040On May 5th, 2017, at the one year mark of Holly being missing, her family and the PI25400:15:40,040 --> 00:15:46,040run a full page ad in the Taos newspaper asking for more information and offering a $5,00025500:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,040reward.25600:15:47,040 --> 00:15:52,760The ad lists out some new details in the case and also outlines the great lengths that they25700:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,320have gone to try to uncover leads.25800:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,720The private investigator has called psychics and also has had an animal communicator come25900:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,760in to work with Holly's dog to help the dog process any trauma that she may have had the26000:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,800night that Holly disappeared.26100:16:07,800 --> 00:16:13,160They also say that a vehicle matching the description of the car seen the morning before26200:16:13,160 --> 00:16:19,720Holly vanished was found abandoned near the New Mexico Colorado state line shortly after26300:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,360Holly disappeared.26400:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,960They asked if anybody knows anything more about this car or more about Holly to please26500:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,320call them.26600:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,080And then the case really drops out of the media.26700:16:31,080 --> 00:16:38,280There was a story ran in May of 2023 to mark the seven years of Holly's disappearance.26800:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,440The private investigator that was hired by the family back in 2016 is still working the26900:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,720case and she says that the case is not cold, that she still occasionally gets a lead in27000:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,920the case that she follows up on, just none of them have led to Holly.27100:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,760She is interested in interviewing multiple people of interest in the case, mainly from27200:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,920people that Holly talked to online.27300:16:59,920 --> 00:17:05,440The PI says, quote, there are always hopeful leads where a hunter or rafter will find something27400:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,000suspicious like maybe bones.27500:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,560So we'll have the bones tested to see if they're animal or human.27600:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,380We have actually found both, but unfortunately, none have led to Holly.27700:17:16,380 --> 00:17:20,200We found clothes in different areas we've checked on, no Holly.27800:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,080We've had lots of sightings that we've looked into, local and also in other states, and27900:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,020they've all ended up not being Holly, end quote.28000:17:29,020 --> 00:17:33,640The PI still doesn't believe that Holly jumped from the bridge and police have dismissed28100:17:33,640 --> 00:17:34,640this as a theory.28200:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,140But she says, quote, there have been three to four jumpers a year on that bridge since28300:17:39,140 --> 00:17:42,080Holly disappeared in 2016.28400:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,880For each of those persons, you've had the sheriff's department, sometimes the state police,28500:17:46,880 --> 00:17:52,760divers, rafters, drones, helicopters, people on foot recovering those bodies three to four28600:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,160years since 2016.28700:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,920So that's how many times people have been down there.28800:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,800A lot of times in the same area to recover these bodies.28900:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,760It just seems like Holly's body or something would have been seen, end quote.29000:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,420But that is really the last update that I could find on Holly White.29100:18:11,420 --> 00:18:17,520So if you know anything about the disappearance of Holly White in May of 2016, please call29200:18:17,520 --> 00:18:24,360private investigator Elaine Graves at 575-613-3415.29300:18:24,360 --> 00:18:30,260And the sources for the timeline today come from the Taos News and the Santa Fe, New Mexico.29400:18:30,260 --> 00:18:33,760So that is the missing person case of Holly White.29500:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,900Like I mentioned at the top of the show, this is a two parter.29600:18:36,900 --> 00:18:40,240So just to lay a little bit of groundwork for next week.29700:18:40,240 --> 00:18:46,800Next week's case will also take place near this bridge, the Taos River Gorge Bridge.29800:18:46,800 --> 00:18:52,920I actually found this case researching next week's case.29900:18:52,920 --> 00:18:58,360And I knew that I needed to start here for both of these stories to make sense with each30000:18:58,360 --> 00:18:59,360other.30100:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,540So I needed to start with Holly's missing person case.30200:19:02,540 --> 00:19:04,720And I was really shocked by this.30300:19:04,720 --> 00:19:11,420I think it's really important to remember when you maul this case over, is that both30400:19:11,420 --> 00:19:17,520police and Holly's friends and families have said she didn't jump.30500:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,000She didn't jump off of that bridge.30600:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,640She didn't die by suicide.30700:19:20,640 --> 00:19:28,120So that makes me think that, you know, her car was parked there as a decoy.30800:19:28,120 --> 00:19:34,880This bridge, as I kind of mentioned in the timeline, is unfortunately a little bit notorious30900:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,200for people jumping off of it.31000:19:38,200 --> 00:19:44,520Not unlike the Golden Gate Bridge also has that same kind of history.31100:19:44,520 --> 00:19:52,600So someone kind of using that to their advantage to park a car there to throw police off of31200:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,560their trail, that part does kind of make sense.31300:19:56,560 --> 00:20:02,040And you know, there are just like a couple of things about the car that stood out to31400:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,000her family and friends and also investigators.31500:20:05,000 --> 00:20:11,920The mention of the grass on the floorboards in front of the passenger seat, people thought31600:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,980was really interesting, especially because we kind of know Holly's movement the day before31700:20:17,980 --> 00:20:19,700she disappeared.31800:20:19,700 --> 00:20:23,800So that Thursday, Fridays when she was reported missing.31900:20:23,800 --> 00:20:30,480So we kind of know her movements and nowhere in there does anybody talk about getting in32000:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,760her car and sitting in the passenger seat where maybe they would track grass in.32100:20:35,760 --> 00:20:42,520I would be curious to know if anybody had sat in her car that week at all.32200:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,420And if they had, you know, was there grass there?32300:20:46,420 --> 00:20:51,520Usually if a car is very neat, like you'll kind of notice if there's dirt on one floorboard.32400:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,220So that was something that stood out to family and friends.32500:20:54,220 --> 00:21:01,080And then also, I just thought the detail of the keys being in the cup holder, not necessarily32600:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,120in the ignition was interesting.32700:21:04,120 --> 00:21:08,600I don't really have any like big speculative things on what that might mean.32800:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,640But to me, it's just like, you know, when you drive a car, you park it, you go to get32900:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,120out of it, you kind of naturally turn it off and pull the keys out of the ignition.33000:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,520So it almost seems like you know, an afterthought that somebody said, oh, and then put them33100:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,560in the cup holder.33200:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,280You could argue that maybe Holly would do that if she didn't plan on coming back to33300:21:29,280 --> 00:21:30,720the car at all.33400:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,880But as her family and friends have said from the beginning, and as police later also said,33500:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,840they do not believe she jumped off of that bridge.33600:21:38,840 --> 00:21:45,300I was reading in all of these articles, and it mentions that the Taos search and rescue33700:21:45,300 --> 00:21:52,920team that work in these instances where somebody does die by suicide from jumping off of the33800:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,840bridge, when they know for certain that that is what has happened, they have recovered33900:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,720the body almost 100% of the time.34000:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,880So they really know what they're doing.34100:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,520And they know the terrain really well.34200:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,000And the rafters in the area, they talk about knowing the river really well, like you know,34300:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,060where you kind of get hung up on things where somebody could get stuck.34400:22:16,060 --> 00:22:20,240And so they also volunteer their time and search the river.34500:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,000And nothing is found of Holly's.34600:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,280There is that shoe, which I have a lot of questions about.34700:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,200It's never really answered if it is Holly's or not.34800:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,180We know that she did have that shoe in a different color in her closet.34900:22:35,180 --> 00:22:39,140Some people when they really like something, they'll buy it in multiple colors if that's35000:22:39,140 --> 00:22:40,640available to them.35100:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,640I don't know if Holly was that kind of person.35200:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,760Nobody mentions that as like a support to this.35300:22:47,760 --> 00:22:53,020And nobody seems to pull out a photograph of her wearing the color shoe that they found,35400:22:53,020 --> 00:22:55,960the black mesh Skechers shoe that they found in the river.35500:22:55,960 --> 00:23:02,600A detail I did find interesting that was reported by the rafters who found the shoe is that35600:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,640they said the shoe wasn't sun bleached at all.35700:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,480They mentioned that, you know, they're out on the river a lot.35800:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,520We've seen a lot of shoes and ones that have been out there for a while.35900:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,880Like you can usually tell like there's sun bleach to them.36000:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,960But this one didn't have any, which led them to think that it hadn't been there for that36100:23:19,960 --> 00:23:20,960long.36200:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,960So that is interesting.36300:23:22,960 --> 00:23:28,640But again, it's not ever really confirmed if that is Holly's shoe.36400:23:28,640 --> 00:23:35,720You know, in the future for this case, I really hope that there are some big resources put36500:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,480towards searching for Holly.36600:23:39,480 --> 00:23:45,680Her family has obviously been doing so much of that like work, you know, and also via36700:23:45,680 --> 00:23:51,840her private investigator has been doing a lot of that work over the years of searching36800:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,200for signs of Holly searching for clues.36900:23:54,200 --> 00:24:03,520But I just hope that at some point those like police resources and specialties and you know,37000:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,200all those things they have at their fingertips of, you know, helicopters and drones and dogs37100:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,540and all of that.37200:24:10,540 --> 00:24:16,920I hope those resources are given to the family to help search for Holly and to find out what37300:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,080happened to her because something is off here.37400:24:22,080 --> 00:24:28,540Again, if you know anything about the disappearance of Holly White, please call private investigator37500:24:28,540 --> 00:24:35,120Elaine Graves at 575-613-3415.37600:24:35,120 --> 00:24:38,900We'll be sharing pictures of course of Holly on our Instagram.37700:24:38,900 --> 00:24:43,360If you're not following us, you can find us at Cold and Missing.37800:24:43,360 --> 00:24:48,520Our profile picture on Instagram is the same as our podcast cover.37900:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,920So you should be able to spot us if you just search our name.38000:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,360And I want to say thank you.38100:24:53,360 --> 00:24:59,280We had a couple of really wonderful reviews come in this week in Apple Podcast.38200:24:59,280 --> 00:25:04,200So if you have a second if you're in Apple Podcast, if you can go ahead and give us a38300:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,880five star rating, write us a review.38400:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,760It is so helpful and other people finding this podcast finding us finding these cases38500:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,920getting to know these cases that maybe they didn't know about and it's just one more person,38600:25:17,920 --> 00:25:24,000you know, thinking about Holly, looking for Holly knows about Holly like all of our cases38700:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,000deserve that.38800:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,920So your reviews, your recommendations to family and friends go so far and getting these stories38900:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,920out there.39000:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,920So thank you, thank you, thank you.39100:25:33,920 --> 00:25:40,800And if you want to find more episodes, transcripts of all our podcast episodes, our YouTube,39200:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,560any of that if you want to donate if you want to write us a review, but you don't have Apple39300:25:44,560 --> 00:25:52,240Podcasts, you can go to www.coldandmissing.com and do all of that over there.39400:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,400Thank you again so much for listening to cold and missing.39500:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,760Such an honor to share these stories and to be a part of your week.39600:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,320So thanks for joining me.39700:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,200Thanks for listening to cold and missing.39800:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,640I'm your host Allie.39900:26:04,640 --> 00:26:15,160Have a good week and stay safe.